Alexander Pavlyuk: “I really want building plans to gradually appear in OSM”

Alexander Pavlyuk is a programmer who is fond of photogrammetry and shooting from a copter. He is making orthophotomaps and is going to master SLAM technology. How he got hooked on the monowheel, why he needs a separate routing, and what about OSM here? Alexander told all this in an interview.

- How and when did you meet OpenStreetMap?

- It happened in 2011, when I was still living in Vologda. I don’t remember how I found out about the project, but he quickly captured me. Somehow, at once, this idea - to make the whole world a free map of the planet - seemed cool and inspired me. I opened the map of Vologda, saw how much needed to be drawn, and started to do it. I remember that when the first high-quality satellite images began to appear. When I was able to make out my house and yard on one such, it literally caused a shock.

- What fascinated you with the mapping process?

- As already said, I was inspired by the idea that any person in the world who wishes can become a co-author of the map. What else fascinated me? So this is what I could instantly see my changes on the map and use them immediately. But the main point that hooked and kept me in the project is the feeling that you made a contribution to some important business, to feel useful and involved in something big and important.

- What then was the OSM community and the card itself? Can you compare with what is now?

- Then I was not familiar with the community, because I did not sit on the forum or in the IRC chat. For me, there was only osm.org and a map that could be made better. I came to the community much later, after many, many years, when I had already moved to Moscow and began working at Sputnik, where I met the guys who were involved in map development. Thanks to them, I learned that there is a certain hangout around OSM.

Sputnik regularly held card meetings, and so we constantly went somewhere and drew something. The atmosphere of these events, as well as on the forum, was friendly, everyone helped and supported each other. As far as I know, this spirit is still preserved in RU-OSM: everyone is friendly, positive and ready to help if something happens.

If we talk about the map, then it was exactly the same as it is now: it was drawn unevenly. There are places where everything is incredibly cool, and there are white spots. And, as it seems to me, they will always be. Mapping is a process that has no end.


During field kartoakatsii

- As far as I know, you take photographic plans from the copter. Tell us about it.

- I began to do this after having visited several card meetings and encountered a number of difficulties. For example, with the drawing of tracks in parks that are not yet marked on the map: you won’t see them from the satellite, because there are not enough resolutions or the pictures are old, and the GPS built into the phone gives too much error, so big that later on the track is impossible to understand. Then I thought that in this situation a copter could help: take off and take off the territory from above. What could be easier? I bought a copter and began to try to shoot orthophotos. Or rather, I didn’t even know such a word then. For some reason, it seemed to me that I would clothe the area I needed on the grid, make a series of shots, and then in JOSM I would tie these to the area. In fact, everything turned out to be not so simple.

- Why?

- The problem is that the Earth is not flat. Suppose you took off in some place right up, but it may turn out that some building obscures all the others. And it comes out elongated and curved in the picture. Then I began to look for information on what to do with it and what should I do.

For a while before that I was doing photogrammetry- This is one of the techniques for creating the real world, with which you can make 3D models. Simply put, you go around the building, take pictures of it, upload the pictures to special software, and he himself makes a point cloud. Already you can use them the way you want: build a 3D model, measure distances, etc. I tried to do something similar with pictures from the copter. It turned out not bad, but still it was not that. But then it turned out that in the Agisoft Photoscan program (now Agisoft Metashape), in which I did all this, there is a wonderful function - creating an orthomosaic. She cunningly processes images from the copter and glues them into a single file, in which everything looks like an even look down - all buildings are in full view.


Point cloud made from the earth with a conventional camera


Point cloud obtained from a copter.

However, this feature was only available in the pro version, which cost several thousand dollars. I tried free analogues - not that. Then I decided to write to the company Agisoft, which is developing this program, that I don’t have enough money to buy a pro version, from which I need only one function - the creation of orthophotomaps. I asked them if it was possible for a more modest fee than buying the entire pro version, to activate me only one - the function I needed. In addition, I mentioned that I am a member of the OpenStreetMap project and draw a map absolutely free, that I don’t earn that I need their program to simplify mapping.

They said. Asked to send a link to the profile in OSM. After we studied it, they sent us an official key for the pro version for free. Thank you very much for that! I was incredibly happy and began to shoot photo plans. It was the most emotional moment in my history with OSM.


A snapshot before processing


A snapshot after processing —

Did you take pictures from the copter somewhere?

- The first time - no. Then he made his own tile server, which could give these pictures in parts. Anyone could connect it to JOSM as a layer and draw on it. Then he learned about the openarialmap project and began to “fill in” the pictures there too . By the way, when I just started using it, then in Russia there were no high-resolution photo plans at all.

About a year I was actively flying and shooting, but then two things happened. First, the work load increased and I could no longer devote as much time to this as before. Second - tightened flight rules for copters, including in Moscow.


An example of shooting from a copter in Russia


An example of shooting from a copter in China

- Is there, it seems, an official procedure for obtaining permission to fly? Did not try to pass it?

- After I read an article on Habré on how to legally fly, I realized that I couldn’t arrange it. There are so many actions ... The flight plan should be sent almost a month, and I shot, as they say, on the occasion when there is free time and suitable weather was given out.

- Since then, do not shoot? After all, there are places where this can be done.

- In Russia there are no such places, the law prohibits everywhere. Unless in other countries to shoot. Rather, we have places where it’s just that they are watching poorly, but this does not mean that “it is possible”. Once I went to Murom , I wanted to shoot there, since Bing satellite images to this city are of poor quality, but there was a strong wind. Because of this, the batteries did not last long.

But if an OSM participant needs to shoot some territory (outside of Moscow) that he wants to map, but there is no good satellite image on it, then call me, I’m ready to go. You always want to remove what someone will need and need, and will not be dead weight.


Copter

- Another of your hobbies is the unicycle. Entertainment or transportation?

- First of all, these are emotions for me, and only then transport. When I ride it, I just get high. By the way, when I travel long distances, I try to record a GPS track, so that I can later upload it to OSM.


Alexander on a unicycle

- Was it difficult to learn how to ride it?

- Electronics does half of everything for you. The gyroscope does not let you fall forward or backward, but you yourself need to keep lateral balance, like on a bicycle. A little practice and nothing complicated.

“I heard that you have a project related to a unicycle.” I want the details.

- The project sounds loud. I made a Telegram bot (@SocketSearchBot), which tells you where the nearest public outlet is, where you can come with your personal mobility tool, as our legislators called them, and recharge it for free.


A screenshot of the dialogue with the Telegram bot

- Where did the data on outlets come from?

- Add users, including myself. In the bot’s interface, execute the / add command, attach the location, several photos, a brief description - and the socket appears in my service. Then I gradually manually transfer this data to OSM. But this project is more aimed at SIM users than OSM. In OSM, I import only rare street sockets, since indoor sockets are pointless without building plans, but they are not in OSM.

But I have one more idea that connects SIM and OSM users more - routing (building routes) for SIM using OSM data. No one has done this yet. I'm not sure that I can do this in the near future, but no one will forbid to think. I heard that one person has already begun to "dig" in this direction. I hope he succeeds.

- If someone starts developing a routing for SIM, what will he have to consider?

- SIM owners are divided into two main groups: some prefer to drive along the roadway, while others prefer to drive slower, but along sidewalks. Therefore, you need to consider at least this point: the priority of security or speed.

Next, a painful pain for SIM: borders, stairs and all that does not have smooth exits. In this they are close to people with disabilities. Yes, advanced SIM users can jump over borders, but not all. Therefore, such places with elevations where you have to dismount must be lowered in priority. A striking example is a staircase without a ramp.
The good thing is that in OSM you can assign additional properties to all similar objects: does the staircase have a railing, a ramp, etc. Often, by the way, they are even marked. All this can use routing to build routes and direct you to where you can go down and drive with minimal time loss.

- How common is the unicycle in other countries?

- I think not. If we talk about developing countries, most of them ride gas mopeds, since gasoline is a more energy-intensive carrier, you can travel far there, which can not be said even about the best electric batteries.

In developed countries, I suppose monowheels did not take root, because they have a good bike infrastructure. Moreover, it’s not only about bike paths, all the conditions have been created for moving around the city by bicycle: you can take it with you on the metro or public transport, enough bike parks, etc.

Our monowheels arose in response to the fact that we have a need for such ways to move, but no bike infrastructure. And you can take the unicycle in the subway, you can ride on it on the sidewalk, at work you park near the workplace - put it under the table and charge it.

- Back to OSM. Continue to map?

- Yes, but I do it by raids, besides through mobile applications, for example, StreetComplete for Android or when I wait for someone, I open the Vespucci editor on my phone and note the entrances from the houses that are nearby. To do this quickly, I prepared a series of templates to simplify the task.

- Do you use OSM data in your personal life or at work?

- At work - no. In my personal life - mainly when traveling, I use the Maps.Me and OSMAnd applications, which take data from OSM for their cards. Often they are more accurate and more convenient than even large players.

- Maybe you have some kind of story related to OSM?

- I really want the building plans to gradually appear in OSM. This can be useful in navigating large objects, such as shopping centers. But for this to happen, it seems to me, you first need to come up with a good tool for drawing these very plans, because GPS is not an assistant here, but with your hands is too dreary.

In particular, I want to make an accurate map of the subway transitions in 3D, so that it can be clearly seen how they are arranged, since there are approximate schemes and maps, but not accurate enough. I began to think about how to implement this and came across a technology such as SLAM. It is used mainly in robots so that in the absence of signals from positioning systems, only based on data from cameras, determine the location and at the same time make a map of the premises. We can say that this is almost the same as writing a GPS track, but only in full 3D and inside buildings. This is incredibly cool!

In the near future I plan to purchase two special cameras for this and first start testing other people's experiences on this topic. If you use a stereo pair of cameras with wide-angle lenses, you can get almost a centimeter accuracy. If you walk several floors with this device, it will be able to determine the location with good accuracy, and if you go again to the places where you have already been, the accuracy will become even higher. In general, I got excited about this idea.

Roughly speaking, if everything works out, it will be a very accurate positioning system. In particular, I think it can even be used on the street. Therefore, if anyone is already versed in this matter, I will be glad to your advice and tips.

“I hope you succeed.” In conclusion, a simple question: why do you need to participate in the OpenStreetMap project?

- That the world has a good, free and independent map of the entire planet. When you edit an OSM card, you definitely make the world a better place. Your data is definitely useful to someone. There is sure to be someone who can use this data properly and make some cool thing out of it that will be useful to many, including you. Therefore, it is important to enter data into OSM.

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Communication of Russian OpenStreetMap participants is in the Telegram chat room and on the forum .
There are also groups on social networks VKontakte , Facebook , but they mainly publish news.

→ Join OSM!

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Previous interview: Sergey Zaichenko , Georgy Potapov , Vladimir Marshinin , Eugene Usvitsky , wowik , SviMik , Kirill Bondarenko , Artem Svetlov , Sergei Sinitsyn , Natalia Kozlovsky , Viktor Vyalichkin , Ivan BANO.notIT aka , Anton Belichkov , Elena Balashova , Ilya Zverev , Timothy Subbotin , Sergey Golubev .