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What do recursion, landing pages and content marketing have in common: says the founder of the agency Embacy

This is a podcast with content makers and media managers. The guest of the 16th issue is Vadim Orlov, CEO of Embacy . He talks about his approach to designing solutions for clients, shares his experience in doing business and explains how to stand out in the niche of landing pages, where everything seems to be already taken.


Vadim Orlov, CEO Embacy


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Vadim: All my professional life I was engaged in marketing, and when I launched my agency, I had two tricks. The first is marketing and digital, the second is design.

We had a lot of projects that were complimentary - we did the landing and then drove traffic to it. From cool - there was a network of quests in the USA and sushi delivery to Tbilisi. Many were skeptical of her, but she took off very cool. Surprisingly, Tbilisi residents are very fond of sushi. Another example is the New Year’s performance The Nutcracker in Zaryadye. We were also responsible for his internet promotion. When a certain number of projects have accumulated, it's time to choose what to focus on more. And judging by the feedback from customers, we got better design.

A company is not only me, but an agency is a business where a certain combination of factors operates. For example, it is very difficult to get a good traffic specialist for a salary below 80-100 thousand, while the labor market in design is much more democratic. Therefore, it turned out that our design team worked better. But in design, especially in marketing design, the market is really very oversaturated. Being a one thousand and five agency that makes landings is a rather sad prospect. So we sat down and thought what could be done differently.

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Alina: And did the content come into play?

Vadim: Yes. In addition to preparing illustrations - we have an employee who deals only with them - the basis of projects is the presentation of what is written. We sat down, thought up, wrote the text, launched the landing page - got into some sort of collection, they started talking about us. More than 200 leads came to us. They spent 19 thousand rubles on advertising, but received more than 90% of organic traffic.

The key approach is recursion. A man reads a landing page about how we did a landing. When I prescribed the screens, I tried to make sure that everyone had something cool and useful. For example, on one of the screens we give access to our working file in Figma. Illustrator calculated how many people watched it, and it turned out that there were more than 600 of them. They clicked, crossed and looked behind the screen of this project. If the landing itself is a process story, then in Figma a person falls even lower. There you can see the elaboration of illustrations: from sketches to the final form.

Now we focus on landing pages with custom illustrations and often with metaphors. I love when there is some kind of general line in the landing line that goes through all the screens from start to finish. One of our previous customers is Exponea's top 2 marketing analytics service. We studied the product, deeply immersed in what the guys are doing, and realized that it is very close in spirit to racing. They bet on speed: on the fact that they automate marketing and due to this, marketers can test hypotheses faster. We carried racing visualizations of the sixties through the entire landing: we drawn a car from scratch - it symbolizes the company. The client is a pilot, and around him there are always four people from the support team who change tires, look after the situation. This is what distinguishes this landing from others.For many companies, everything is pretty much the same - stock and a sloppy approach are visible.


A: You said that you use metaphors wherever possible and appropriate. Tell me, please, how is the process of their selection going? How do you coordinate everything with the customer and convince him that everything should be just like that?


This is an intimate and sometimes painful process. First, we immerse ourselves in the product and immerse ourselves in the market. The team has an analyst who is responsible for digging as deep as possible all that is - to study related products, to see what already exists, so as not to be repeated, but to draw some idea. After working with him, I meet with a client.

I talk about the results of our analytics, show ideas and drafts, ask what he thinks about it. The client either before or right during the meeting immerses me even deeper into the product. For example, when we made a landing page for an outdoor advertising automation service, we had a meeting - there was a head of customer service, there was a product director, director of marketing and CEO. They always have slightly different views and visions, the marketer broadcasts the most attractive image, the CEO thinks about positioning for investors, the product director discusses from the point of view of some features, and the customer service says that it hurts.


A playlist with key quotes from our interviews about content marketing and the work of the media

And we either come to some kind of metaphor together, or later, when I come to the team, collect everything that was told to me at the meeting, and arrange an internal brainstorm. On it we analyze and complete everything. It never works the first time. It is always a clash of ideas.

A:Do you somehow evaluate them inside the team?

Q:If there is such a struggle, then yes - we are voting. We have a non-classical brainstorm - you can swear. Each member of the team can throw something regardless of his status, the other will pick it up: this is how the beautiful is born.


A: You said that the first thing you start to study is a certain market - naturally, the one your client is engaged in. Do you have an idea of ​​which markets are now oversaturated with certain metaphors, weighed down by meanings and so on?


Q: Almost everywhere, everything is trite and straightforward. So I started to do what I do. I see great potential. Many do not understand how a custom approach to landing pages can change their perception in the eyes of the audience. All were sick of the Tilda landing pages - they are the same. Yes, they are good to test a hypothesis. But when it was confirmed, it is necessary to give an understandable solution to the market - to show history and background, and for this we need text and illustrations.


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Q: I think this is a combination of factors - this is my second marketing agency, so I already have some amount of experience in b2b sales, plus enough experience in consulting. I understand how to adapt to the marketing director and how to convey to the individual what and why is really needed. I think that our landing page about the landing became a key factor: one person in the brief indicated that he wants to do as we do. Before him we did did good, but boring projects - although there was a good conversion. We didn’t even spread on Behance what we did before more active work with metaphors, as it was “like everyone else”.

A: Do you think there are any separate areas in those areas with which you work, in which your approach is desperately lacking?

AT:It’s for sure IT, it’s for sure SaaS. If you go to G2 Crowd - a service where top-level IT-SaaS gather, you can see the leaders in different segments - there are many of these segments. In the world, bad landing pages so far dominate - this urgently needs to be fixed. A conventional jacket can be beautifully photographed and it will already be clear what kind of jacket it is and who it will suit. For example, we made a landing for a company that sews custom-made men's suits in Italy. You come, they take measurements from you, think over the details, style, select the fabric, once a month an Italian tailor comes and can advise you. And it is worth saying that metaphors are not suitable for everyone. It is often easier to show the product as it is, because it speaks for itself.

In a SaaS product, this is the user interface. One of our clients is Medialogia, the service is cool, it is in the top in its segment. With all due respect to the team and those people who are involved in the interface, it is at the level of 2006-2009. He is not bad, professional, but if you portray him on the landing page, he will not look sexy. Unfortunately, most have this problem. If you show only screenshots, there will be no good impression.

A: Well, at least, because software is not a thing in itself. You won’t buy it, just open it and admire it, like a new jacket. Software is needed to solve problems, it’s important to tell a story: what kind of happiness will come to you when you start using it.

AT:Yes. Therefore, there is a space that needs to be filled out and told this story in the client language - about needs and problem solving using a specific service.


A: The text will be discussed here correctly. If you go back to the landing page about the landing page, you said that you tried on each slide to lay additional meanings, hooks that would hook the reader so that he would go somewhere and watch something additional. How do you do this for customers? How is the process of developing these catchy nuances?


Q: In that project, we expressed ourselves as much as possible, therefore we used such things that the client does not always need - especially if this is the production of expensive jackets in Italy.

A: What should they not use from your arsenal?

Q: Self-irony or recursion - little can be used. Informality, informality, primitivism in the good sense of the word. It depends on the client - we do everything custom.

A: Does it make sense to extend your approach to articles that appear on behalf of the company, apply to its blog, to its social networks, to all its manifestations in the media and the media?

AT:100% yes. If you have a cool landing page, I want to make sure that all the rest of the content you have was at this level and in a similar style. You can look at RealtimeBoard how much the illustrations in the articles change their perception. Such a small detail can improve the quality of the material and create a holistic image, provided that the text itself is not bad.


Playlist with key quotes from our interviews about content marketing and media work

Today, the platform is not so important for the person as the content of the article. How much will the reader have a different perception if he reads an article where a specific tone of voice is laid, and a person can distinguish a blog from everything else. We already have branding requests - for branding blogs and newsletters. We will move in this direction as well.


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Q: I really like the Yota case here. They have a professional team, a part of which I am glad to be familiar with. I even invited their copywriter to speak at my office. He came and talked about why and why Yota does just such an ad. In his speech, there were dozens of commercials for mobile operators in the joint. In the end, it became obvious that there were two Yota ads, and how many of the others were not very clear. Therefore, the content, the format of its presentation and its deep study help the company stand out in the market. This task is especially acute if the company does not have such a large budget and you need to spend it as efficiently as possible, and not master it.

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